節錄自
當代緬甸毘婆舍那修行傳統之間的一個諍論
──觀察過去、未來的名色
溫宗
於毗婆奢那中是否觀過去名色方證得緣攝受智
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yggdrasils
- 文章: 38
- 註冊時間: 2009-04-12, 08:00
-
yggdrasils
- 文章: 38
- 註冊時間: 2009-04-12, 08:00
關於這個問題，前段時間剛和一個朋友有過討論。首先值得註意的是，馬哈希尊者說死亡意思和結生識只有諸佛才能直接看見：
識緣名色
依賴於結生識，相應的精神現象和物質現象生起，如受、記憶、想和三個十色法聚（或者說三十個物質現象）。結生識滅去後，心所有法（cetasika）隨每一剎那的心生起。以心、業、溫度（utu）和營養元素（ahara)為緣的物質現象，也是如此。精神現象和心的密切聯系是無容置疑的。當心處於活躍狀態，我們能感覺、記憶和思考，因此貪、嗔、信等等生起。我們站、坐、走，這都是由心引發的物質現象，也是顯而易見的。按照註疏，這些顯然的事實是推斷結生識導致三個十色法聚或三十種物質現象的基礎。結生識和結生的物質現象生起得非常快，甚至天眼也無法看見。天眼可能看到死前一點時間或結生後一點時間發生的事，但只有佛陀的正遍知能力可以直接看到死亡意識和結生識。但是從我們知道的關於物質現象的起因，我們可以推斷結生時，物質因結生識而生起。
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Mahasi/Dep ... sness.html
Consciousness and Mental Properties
Dependent on rebirth-consciousness, mental phenomena associated with it arise, such as feeling, remembering, perception or reflection, with three decads (or thirty material phenomena). After the cessation of rebirth-consciousness, mental properties (cetasikā) arise with every moment of consciousness. So do material phenomena conditioned by consciousness, kamma, temperature (utu), and nutriment (āhāra). There is no doubt about the close connection between consciousness and mental properties. When consciousness is active, we feel, remember or think, and so greed, anger, faith, and so forth arise. Equally obvious are the physical phenomena that stem from consciousness when we stand, sit, go or do anything that we wish to do. According to the commentary, this obvious fact is the basis for inferring that the rebirth-consciousness at conception leads to three decads or thirty material phenomena. The arising of rebirth-consciousness and material phenomena at conception takes place so fast that it is imperceptible even to the divine eye. The divine eye may see what happens shortly before death and after rebirth, but it is only the Buddha’s omniscience that can see decease-consciousness and rebirth-consciousness directly. However, from what we know about the cause of physical phenomena, we can infer that at conception materiality arises from rebirth-consciousness.
但是這裏馬哈希尊者沒有具體說這個觀點的出處，似乎應該是註疏裏的觀點，但是我也無法去核查。 不過看清凈道論講緣攝受智部分，我註意到講完緣攝受智轉入講遍知智的時候用了一組比喻來說明死亡意識和結生識之間的關系，這似乎也說明了死亡意識和結生識無法直接被佛弟子觀照，這一段討論請看：http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4a8514e70100f1pi.html
也請大家仔細閱讀清淨道論這段論述，結合上下文看看我這樣的推論是否合理。
如果死亡意識和結生識不能直接看見，那么“必須觀過去名色”的說法的可靠性就值得懷疑。
識緣名色
依賴於結生識，相應的精神現象和物質現象生起，如受、記憶、想和三個十色法聚（或者說三十個物質現象）。結生識滅去後，心所有法（cetasika）隨每一剎那的心生起。以心、業、溫度（utu）和營養元素（ahara)為緣的物質現象，也是如此。精神現象和心的密切聯系是無容置疑的。當心處於活躍狀態，我們能感覺、記憶和思考，因此貪、嗔、信等等生起。我們站、坐、走，這都是由心引發的物質現象，也是顯而易見的。按照註疏，這些顯然的事實是推斷結生識導致三個十色法聚或三十種物質現象的基礎。結生識和結生的物質現象生起得非常快，甚至天眼也無法看見。天眼可能看到死前一點時間或結生後一點時間發生的事，但只有佛陀的正遍知能力可以直接看到死亡意識和結生識。但是從我們知道的關於物質現象的起因，我們可以推斷結生時，物質因結生識而生起。
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Mahasi/Dep ... sness.html
Consciousness and Mental Properties
Dependent on rebirth-consciousness, mental phenomena associated with it arise, such as feeling, remembering, perception or reflection, with three decads (or thirty material phenomena). After the cessation of rebirth-consciousness, mental properties (cetasikā) arise with every moment of consciousness. So do material phenomena conditioned by consciousness, kamma, temperature (utu), and nutriment (āhāra). There is no doubt about the close connection between consciousness and mental properties. When consciousness is active, we feel, remember or think, and so greed, anger, faith, and so forth arise. Equally obvious are the physical phenomena that stem from consciousness when we stand, sit, go or do anything that we wish to do. According to the commentary, this obvious fact is the basis for inferring that the rebirth-consciousness at conception leads to three decads or thirty material phenomena. The arising of rebirth-consciousness and material phenomena at conception takes place so fast that it is imperceptible even to the divine eye. The divine eye may see what happens shortly before death and after rebirth, but it is only the Buddha’s omniscience that can see decease-consciousness and rebirth-consciousness directly. However, from what we know about the cause of physical phenomena, we can infer that at conception materiality arises from rebirth-consciousness.
但是這裏馬哈希尊者沒有具體說這個觀點的出處，似乎應該是註疏裏的觀點，但是我也無法去核查。 不過看清凈道論講緣攝受智部分，我註意到講完緣攝受智轉入講遍知智的時候用了一組比喻來說明死亡意識和結生識之間的關系，這似乎也說明了死亡意識和結生識無法直接被佛弟子觀照，這一段討論請看：http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4a8514e70100f1pi.html
也請大家仔細閱讀清淨道論這段論述，結合上下文看看我這樣的推論是否合理。
如果死亡意識和結生識不能直接看見，那么“必須觀過去名色”的說法的可靠性就值得懷疑。