(八四三)
如是我聞
一時。佛住舍衛國祇樹給孤獨園
爾時。世尊告尊者舍利弗。所謂流者。何等為流
舍利弗白佛言。世尊所說流者。謂八聖道
復問舍利弗。謂入流分。何等為入流分
舍利弗白佛言。世尊。有四種入流分。何等為四。謂親近善男子.聽正法.內正思惟.法次法向
復問舍利弗。入流者成就幾法
舍利弗白佛言。有四分成就入流者。何等為四。謂於佛不壞淨.於法不壞淨.於僧不壞淨.聖戒成就
佛告舍利弗。如汝所說。流者。謂八聖道。入流分者有四種。謂親近善男子.聽正法.內正思惟.法次法向。入流者成就四法。謂於佛不壞淨.於法不壞淨.於僧不壞淨.聖戒成就
佛說此經已。尊者舍利弗聞佛所說。歡喜奉行
誠徵雜阿含843經的英譯相應部對照經文:
[The Connected Discourses of the Buddha]~{by Bhikkhu Bodhi}page 1792~1793 (SN55.5):
Then the Venerable Sariputta approached the Blessed One ,paid homage to him,and sat down to one side. The Blessed One then said to him:
"Sariputta,this is said:' A factor for stream-entry, a factor for stream-entry.' What now,Sariputta,is a factor for stream-entry?"
"Association with superior persons,venerable sir,is a factor for stream-entry.Hearing the true Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry.Careful attention is a factor for stream-entry.Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry."
'Good,good,Sariputta !Association with superior persons,Sariputta,is a factor for stream-entry.........Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry.
" Sariputta ,this is said:The stream,the stream.' What now,Sariputta, is the stream?"
"This Noble eightfold Path,venerable sir, is the stream;that is right view,right intention,right speech,right action,right livelihood,right effort,right mindfulness,right concentration."
'Good,good,Sariputta !This Noble Eightfold Path is the stream,that is ,right view...right concentration.
'Sariputta,this is said:A stream-enterer,a stream-enterer.'What now,Sariputta, is a stream-enterer?"
"One who possesses this Noble Eightfold Path ,venerale sir,is called a stream-enterer:
this venerable one of such a name and clan."
'Good,good,Sariputta !One who possesses this Noble Eightfold Path is a stream-enterer:
this venerable one of such a name and clan."
Then the Venerable Sariputta approached the Blessed One ,paid homage to him,and sat down to one side. The Blessed One then said to him:
"Sariputta,this is said:' A factor for stream-entry, a factor for stream-entry.' What now,Sariputta,is a factor for stream-entry?"
"Association with superior persons,venerable sir,is a factor for stream-entry.Hearing the true Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry.Careful attention is a factor for stream-entry.Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry."
'Good,good,Sariputta !Association with superior persons,Sariputta,is a factor for stream-entry.........Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry.
" Sariputta ,this is said:The stream,the stream.' What now,Sariputta, is the stream?"
"This Noble eightfold Path,venerable sir, is the stream;that is right view,right intention,right speech,right action,right livelihood,right effort,right mindfulness,right concentration."
'Good,good,Sariputta !This Noble Eightfold Path is the stream,that is ,right view...right concentration.
'Sariputta,this is said:A stream-enterer,a stream-enterer.'What now,Sariputta, is a stream-enterer?"
"One who possesses this Noble Eightfold Path ,venerale sir,is called a stream-enterer:
this venerable one of such a name and clan."
'Good,good,Sariputta !One who possesses this Noble Eightfold Path is a stream-enterer:
this venerable one of such a name and clan."
哎唷!您貼錯「對照文」了啦!難怪,看起來有點奇怪,應該是這樣:leeyc2 寫:佛告舍利弗。如汝所說。流者。謂八聖道
One who possesses this Noble Eightfold Path ,venerale sir,is called a stream-enterer
謝謝!還有以上這一段,也是容易發生混淆的地方,一是this Noble Eightfold Path 從漢譯可能看不出Eightfold 的含意(八支聖道也是);另一方面所謂的 possesses >>possesses this Noble Eightfold Path其實也需要進一步去釐清其含意的,大家若能舉例說明一下更好,THANKS!
「佛告舍利弗。如汝所說。流者。謂八聖道
'Good,good,Sariputta !This Noble Eightfold Path is the stream,that is ,right view...right concentration.
(是的!是的!sariputta!這八支聖道是「流」(小河川),就是「正見…正定」 )」
對照漢譯,有一個地方很奇怪,「預流果成就幾法,謂四法,佛法僧不壞淨,聖戒成就」這一段不見了。還有別的關連經文嗎?
另外:「One who possesses this Noble Eightfold Path ,venerale sir,is called a stream-enterer
(世尊!一位能掌握八支聖道的人,就是所謂的「預流者」。)
possesses,在此譯成「掌握」是比較恰當的說法。一般翻成「擁有」好像也沒問題…但會比較不流暢。」
挑選這則經文,原本的用意是想釐清何謂「初果向」,因為,經文並沒有很清楚的定義何謂「初果向」,但有其名,卻乏清楚的定義。所以,想從這篇經文找出「初果向」在定義上的脈絡。
我個人覺得「初果向」,簡單地說,就是依照這「預流四法」(親近善士、聽聞正法、內正思惟、法次法向)而流入「八支聖道」的人。所以,第一道關卡「親近善士」是很重要的,現在只要能弄清楚何謂「善士」,事情就簡單多了。雖然,經文也有「自依止、法依止」的說法,但若一開始就沒有善士可親近,沒有正法可聽聞,在「無法可聞、無法可修」的情況下,那就更談不上什麼「自依止、法依止」。
1.我覺得:八支聖道是以正見為首,這件事非常值得我們重視...peacecila 寫:佛告舍利弗。如汝所說。流者。謂八聖道
'Good,good,Sariputta !This Noble Eightfold Path is the stream,that is ,right view...right concentration.
(是的!是的!sariputta!這八支聖道是「流」(小河川),就是「正見…正定」 )」
對照漢譯,有一個地方很奇怪,「預流果成就幾法,謂四法,佛法僧不壞淨,聖戒成就」這一段不見了。還有別的關連經文嗎?
另外:「One who possesses this Noble Eightfold Path ,venerale sir,is called a stream-enterer
(世尊!一位能掌握八支聖道的人,就是所謂的「預流者」。)
possesses,在此譯成「掌握」是比較恰當的說法。一般翻成「擁有」好像也沒問題…但會比較不流暢。....
經文也有「自依止、法依止」的說法,但若一開始就沒有善士可親近,沒有正法可聽聞,在「無法可聞、無法可修」的情況下,那就更談不上什麼「自依止、法依止」。
2.[成就四不壞淨(於佛法僧不壞淨.聖戒成就),名為入流者]相應部或雜阿含都出現非常多次啊,這是不必懷疑的吧?...不過,若依sn55.20似乎表示有某些人是先成就其中某一項,(如於佛不壞淨),之後才由此因緣成為入流者的(當然也必須成就四不壞淨)..
3.
A.若依雜阿含638經SN47.13(長阿含也有)所謂的自洲自依,法洲法依(自依止法依止)來看,其實都明白表示是修習四念處喔,如果以八支聖道的次第來看,並非普通的人就有足夠的基礎修四念處的:
B.某位師兄就不止提過一.兩次的雜阿含624經的重要:{汝當先淨其戒,直其見,具足三業,然後修四念處又雜阿含628 SN47.21為諸比丘說聖戒,令不斷、不缺、不擇、不離、不戒取、善究竟、善持、智者所歎、所不憎惡...尊者阿難語優陀夷:為修四念處故
C.雜阿含1034SN55.3也可以看見實例:[世尊!如世尊說四不壞淨,我今悉有。我常於佛不壞淨,於法、僧不壞淨,聖戒成就」。佛告童子:「汝當依四不壞淨,於上修習六明分想。何等為六?謂一切行無常想,無常苦想,苦無我想..]
D.自己其實對雜阿含618經目前是有些許疑惑的,請法友們可以談一談:[於四念處多修習。當得四果。四種福利云何為四。謂須陀洹果.斯陀含果.阿那含果.阿羅漢果。]
舉例:大念處經在說修習四念處的好處時只提到不還果.及究竟智(阿羅漢);而且中部119經並沒有像中阿含81:因修習身念處能成為須陀洹 的說法
"Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry."leeyc2 寫:剛剛又翻了一下經SN47.36也和大念處經一樣:於四念處修習多修習,可以期待兩個果位的其中之一:究竟智(阿羅漢)或是不還果,的確都是不同於雜阿618經的
這一經有趣的地方,還有這一句:「“法次法向“是導向預流果的因素之一。」有趣的是這位尊者的英譯比較淺顯易懂,意即:「佛法的實踐與佛法保持一致。」我覺得這是延續「內正思惟」而來,「法次法向」所隱含的一種意思,就是:「對於佛法,瞭解多少就實踐多少,瞭解與實踐保持一致。」對照「舍利弗」尊者的說法,就是「知一法、斷一法」的意思。漢譯也有不少「法次法向」的說法,我不曉得英譯是否與漢譯的含意相同。
之前也看過不少「法次法向」的論文,但以初學者的角度來認識「法次法向」,個人覺得「英譯」的說法是比較容易瞭解的。