我修禪定從來沒注意呼吸這件事，
當我發現入定的竅門後，同時也發現如何控制身體自律神經
所以我才能很快讓呼吸和心跳變緩。包括其他自律神經所控制的內臟
通常自律神經是無法以意識控制的
談談“坦尼沙羅”比丘的「呼吸禪定」
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falconidae
- 文章: 13
- 註冊時間: 2011-01-23, 08:00
[[/quote]
請教falcon法友：
這項實驗記載在Richard Davidson哪一篇paper?
http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... idson.html[/quote]
是的。
原始的paper在這裡:
2007年
http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... alPNAS.pdf
而之後有關於 meditators 的實驗，記有:
2008年
1. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... on_TCS.pdf
2. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... LoSONE.pdf
3. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... hophys.pdf
4. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... haIEEE.pdf
( 這篇有EEG。不過要注意的是他這裏專指Gamma波，而非其他四種腦波。Gamma波一般認為與選擇性注意力有關。 )
2009年
http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... oImage.pdf
在此之後有關於 trained meditators 的文章多為 review articles，
所以末學就偷懶不列了。
請教falcon法友：
這項實驗記載在Richard Davidson哪一篇paper?
http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... idson.html[/quote]
是的。
原始的paper在這裡:
2007年
http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... alPNAS.pdf
而之後有關於 meditators 的實驗，記有:
2008年
1. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... on_TCS.pdf
2. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... LoSONE.pdf
3. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... hophys.pdf
4. http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... haIEEE.pdf
( 這篇有EEG。不過要注意的是他這裏專指Gamma波，而非其他四種腦波。Gamma波一般認為與選擇性注意力有關。 )
2009年
http://brainimaging.waisman.wisc.edu/pu ... oImage.pdf
在此之後有關於 trained meditators 的文章多為 review articles，
所以末學就偷懶不列了。
坦尼沙羅長老關於涅磐的思想看來受到阿姜放的影響：
“解脫時的心，好比空中的火元素。當火熄滅時，它並沒有消失在任何地方。它仍然彌漫在虛空，只不過它不攀附任何火引，因此不顯現出來。”
http://www.theravadacn.org/Talk/FuangAw ... tm#release
這基本證實了我長期以來的一個基本猜測，坦尼沙羅長老所教導的呼吸禪定法屬於“世間禪定法”。
“解脫時的心，好比空中的火元素。當火熄滅時，它並沒有消失在任何地方。它仍然彌漫在虛空，只不過它不攀附任何火引，因此不顯現出來。”
http://www.theravadacn.org/Talk/FuangAw ... tm#release
這基本證實了我長期以來的一個基本猜測，坦尼沙羅長老所教導的呼吸禪定法屬於“世間禪定法”。
leeyc2之前提過的譚尼沙羅尊者的著作《Mind Like Fire Unbound》序文有提到他從阿姜放那句話出發，並考察當時印度人火熄滅的思想而思索涅槃的意義。
This book has been many years in preparation. It began from a casual remark made one evening by my meditation teacher — Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko — to the effect that the mind released is like fire that has gone out: The fire is not annihilated, he said, but is still there, diffused in the air; it simply no longer latches on to any fuel. This remark gave me food for thought for a long time afterwards.When I came to learn Pali, my first interest was to explore the early texts to learn what views they contained about the workings of fire and how these influenced the meaning of nibbāna — literally, 'extinguishing' — as a name for the Buddhist goal.The result of my research is this book.
至少要完整地看完《Mind Like Fire Unbound》第一章全文，才能完全理解尊者怎樣詮釋涅槃。以下是leeyc2介紹過的文字，它是關鍵的段落之一:
But when we look at how the Buddha actually used the image of extinguished fire in his teachings, we find that he approached the Vedic idea of latent fire from another angle entirely: If latent fire is everywhere all at once, it is nowhere in particular. If it is conceived as always present in everything, it has to be so loosely defined that it has no defining characteristics, nothing by which it might be known at all. Thus, instead of using the subsistence of latent fire as an image for immortality,he uses the diffuse, indeterminate nature of extinguished fire as understood by the Vedists to illustrate the absolute indescribability of the person who has reached the Buddhist goal.
This book has been many years in preparation. It began from a casual remark made one evening by my meditation teacher — Phra Ajaan Fuang Jotiko — to the effect that the mind released is like fire that has gone out: The fire is not annihilated, he said, but is still there, diffused in the air; it simply no longer latches on to any fuel. This remark gave me food for thought for a long time afterwards.When I came to learn Pali, my first interest was to explore the early texts to learn what views they contained about the workings of fire and how these influenced the meaning of nibbāna — literally, 'extinguishing' — as a name for the Buddhist goal.The result of my research is this book.
至少要完整地看完《Mind Like Fire Unbound》第一章全文，才能完全理解尊者怎樣詮釋涅槃。以下是leeyc2介紹過的文字，它是關鍵的段落之一:
But when we look at how the Buddha actually used the image of extinguished fire in his teachings, we find that he approached the Vedic idea of latent fire from another angle entirely: If latent fire is everywhere all at once, it is nowhere in particular. If it is conceived as always present in everything, it has to be so loosely defined that it has no defining characteristics, nothing by which it might be known at all. Thus, instead of using the subsistence of latent fire as an image for immortality,he uses the diffuse, indeterminate nature of extinguished fire as understood by the Vedists to illustrate the absolute indescribability of the person who has reached the Buddhist goal.
May All Beings Be Happy
剛看了一半《Mind Like Fire Unbound》，發現了一個比較大的問題，恐怕是譚尼沙羅長老沒有意識到的一個盲點。
1）nibbāna — literally, 'extinguishing' — as a name for the Buddhist goal.佛陀用火焰的熄滅來比喻涅般，非常象形，非常好理解----燃料是欲貪，苦是火焰，苦熄滅了，就是熄滅了，沒有熄滅後去了那裏的問題，也沒有潛在的火的因子這回事。
這個比喻在經文當中非常常見，並且見於南北共傳。
2）譚尼沙羅長老的著作《Mind Like Fire Unbound》所提到的阿羅漢Dabba Mallaputta通過神通（身上出火）入滅，是一個具體的事例，不是比喻。
這兩者不能相提並論，也就是說，阿羅漢可以有無數的死的方式，通過身上出火來入滅，這只是一個個人的選擇，和涅般當中火焰的比喻是風馬牛不相及的事情。
如果用火焰的熄滅來比喻阿羅漢的涅般，可以說是任何的阿羅漢都適用的，也是指他們證四果的當下，這就是涅般，不是死的時候才叫涅般。火焰熄滅了，並且不再升起，也沒有任何去處，也不是進入了潛在的，無所不在的火因子的形式。
用阿羅漢Dabba Mallaputta通過神通（身上出火）入滅（Ud 8.10）來比附涅般的字面意義--（火）的吹熄，非常不妥，造成嚴重的混亂。
3）再來看Ud 8.10
PTS: Ud 93
Dabba Sutta: About Dabba Mallaputta (2)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
The Blessed One said, "When Dabba Mallaputta rose up into the air and, sitting cross-legged in the sky, in space, entered & emerged from the fire property and was totally unbound, his body burned and was consumed so that neither ashes nor soot could be discerned. Just as when ghee or oil is burned and consumed, neither ashes nor soot can be discerned, in the same way, when Dabba Mallaputta rose up into the air and, sitting cross-legged in the sky, in space, entered & emerged from the fire property and was totally unbound, his body burned and was consumed so that neither ashes nor soot could be discerned."
在這裏，his body burned and was consumed 。。。Just as when ghee or oil is burned and consumed,
他的身體是燃料，Dabba Mallaputta從火焰當中退出進入虛空，這正是吠陀的思想。如何會是佛教的涅般觀呢？
1）nibbāna — literally, 'extinguishing' — as a name for the Buddhist goal.佛陀用火焰的熄滅來比喻涅般，非常象形，非常好理解----燃料是欲貪，苦是火焰，苦熄滅了，就是熄滅了，沒有熄滅後去了那裏的問題，也沒有潛在的火的因子這回事。
這個比喻在經文當中非常常見，並且見於南北共傳。
2）譚尼沙羅長老的著作《Mind Like Fire Unbound》所提到的阿羅漢Dabba Mallaputta通過神通（身上出火）入滅，是一個具體的事例，不是比喻。
這兩者不能相提並論，也就是說，阿羅漢可以有無數的死的方式，通過身上出火來入滅，這只是一個個人的選擇，和涅般當中火焰的比喻是風馬牛不相及的事情。
如果用火焰的熄滅來比喻阿羅漢的涅般，可以說是任何的阿羅漢都適用的，也是指他們證四果的當下，這就是涅般，不是死的時候才叫涅般。火焰熄滅了，並且不再升起，也沒有任何去處，也不是進入了潛在的，無所不在的火因子的形式。
用阿羅漢Dabba Mallaputta通過神通（身上出火）入滅（Ud 8.10）來比附涅般的字面意義--（火）的吹熄，非常不妥，造成嚴重的混亂。
3）再來看Ud 8.10
PTS: Ud 93
Dabba Sutta: About Dabba Mallaputta (2)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
The Blessed One said, "When Dabba Mallaputta rose up into the air and, sitting cross-legged in the sky, in space, entered & emerged from the fire property and was totally unbound, his body burned and was consumed so that neither ashes nor soot could be discerned. Just as when ghee or oil is burned and consumed, neither ashes nor soot can be discerned, in the same way, when Dabba Mallaputta rose up into the air and, sitting cross-legged in the sky, in space, entered & emerged from the fire property and was totally unbound, his body burned and was consumed so that neither ashes nor soot could be discerned."
在這裏，his body burned and was consumed 。。。Just as when ghee or oil is burned and consumed,
他的身體是燃料，Dabba Mallaputta從火焰當中退出進入虛空，這正是吠陀的思想。如何會是佛教的涅般觀呢？