五取蘊苦是對生老死等苦的略說,生老死是對五取蘊苦的詳解。若沒有老病死,五取蘊的苦也無從說起了。
云何知苦如真。謂生苦.老苦.病苦.死苦.怨憎會苦.愛別離苦.所求不得苦.略五盛陰苦。是謂知苦如真。
雜阿含經(73)--相應部SN22:22
云何取擔。[當來有愛.貪.喜俱。彼彼樂著]
"And which is the taking up of the burden? The craving that makes for further becoming -- accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there -- i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. This is called the taking up of the burden. (譚尼沙羅尊者英譯)
菩提尊者網路版英譯SN56:11:
Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to re-becoming, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for becoming, craving for disbecoming.
[當來有愛.貪.喜俱。彼彼樂著]也出現在[轉法輪經]SN56:11說渴愛是苦(之)集的那一段,有沒有法友願意分享心得或做些補充? 經文明白指出渴愛是苦(之)集,而不是說五取蘊是苦集(五取蘊是苦),這一點蠻值得注意的
P.S四聖諦的教法中並沒說渴愛是苦(沒明說?),而是說五取蘊是苦,兩者之間也令人玩味..
"And which is the taking up of the burden? The craving that makes for further becoming -- accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there -- i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. This is called the taking up of the burden. (譚尼沙羅尊者英譯)
菩提尊者網路版英譯SN56:11:
Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to re-becoming, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for becoming, craving for disbecoming.
[當來有愛.貪.喜俱。彼彼樂著]也出現在[轉法輪經]SN56:11說渴愛是苦(之)集的那一段,有沒有法友願意分享心得或做些補充? 經文明白指出渴愛是苦(之)集,而不是說五取蘊是苦集(五取蘊是苦),這一點蠻值得注意的
P.S四聖諦的教法中並沒說渴愛是苦(沒明說?),而是說五取蘊是苦,兩者之間也令人玩味..
這種對於四聖諦的說法太輕率了,是對於原始佛法過度解讀的習慣流露。shanguan 寫:在四諦中,除了滅諦,其餘三諦均是苦。集諦和道諦也師生滅無常的有為法。
之所以分開說,是爲了幫助人們理解苦的產生和滅去的方法。
其主要原因還是因為沒有搞清什麽是“苦”蹄之“苦”所造成的。
客觀地說,這種擔心是有一些道理的,但是,並不是不能解決的。shanguan 寫:如果這樣的話,大乘的佛陀可以乘願在來之類的理論就可以成立了。
因爲根據他們説法,佛陀還是可以生老死的,因爲這個生老死不是苦。
依末學看來,當你真正地見到了四聖諦的“滅諦”,知道了“滅”是什麽樣子的,就不會再有這樣的疑問。
“生死已盡”並不需要象佛使比丘那樣去解讀,它所說的意思,就是我們日常生活中的語言所表達的意思:這是最後生,不會再出生了。
當然,不能要求每個人都在見“諦”之後來討論佛法,但是,在此之前,能夠盡量不去過度地解讀還是非常需要的。