雜阿含一○四經
先確定一下這個問題:
在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
......
Then a large number of wandering sectarians went to Ven. Anuradha and on arrival exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, they sat to one side. As they were sitting there, they said to Ven. Anuradha, "Friend Anuradha, the Tathagata — the supreme man, the superlative man, attainer of the superlative attainment — being described, is described with [one of] these four positions: The Tathagata exists after death, does not exist after death, both does & does not exist after death, neither exists nor does not exist after death."
from
SN 22.86 PTS: S iii 116 CDB i 936
Anuradha Sutta: To Anuradha
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
......
Then, when the Blessed One had eaten and had removed his hand from his bowl, Prince Abhaya took a lower seat and sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "Lord, would the Tathagata say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others?"
from
MN 58 PTS: M i 392
Abhaya Sutta: To Prince Abhaya
(On Right Speech)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
......
Then a large number of wandering sectarians went to Ven. Anuradha and on arrival exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, they sat to one side. As they were sitting there, they said to Ven. Anuradha, "Friend Anuradha, the Tathagata — the supreme man, the superlative man, attainer of the superlative attainment — being described, is described with [one of] these four positions: The Tathagata exists after death, does not exist after death, both does & does not exist after death, neither exists nor does not exist after death."
from
SN 22.86 PTS: S iii 116 CDB i 936
Anuradha Sutta: To Anuradha
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
......
Then, when the Blessed One had eaten and had removed his hand from his bowl, Prince Abhaya took a lower seat and sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "Lord, would the Tathagata say words that are unendearing & disagreeable to others?"
from
MN 58 PTS: M i 392
Abhaya Sutta: To Prince Abhaya
(On Right Speech)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
緬甸宗教部將這裏的如來看成是that sentient being,只是他的一家之言,即便如此,他們在括號裏還是如實標示（tathagata），看看巴利原文:
“yo so, āvuso anurādha, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto, taṃ tathāgato imesu catūsu ṭhānesu pa&&āpayamāno pa&&āpeti
http://agama.buddhason.org/SA/SAsearch1 ... SA0106.htm
以上是SN 22.86 的巴利語經文(臺灣嘉義法雨道場流通的word版本),我不懂巴利語,但是,從tathāgato的外形看來,應該就是Tathagata. 從莊居士的翻譯看,他也是翻成{如來}:
尊者阿奴羅度對那些其他外道遊行者這麼說：
「道友！當安立最高的人、無上的人、已證得無上成就的如來時.
所以,我主張:在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
即使如緬甸宗教部將這裏的如來看成是that sentient being, 這裏的that sentient being也不是指眾生的實在性,而是指代某個眾生(最高的人、無上的人、已證得無上成就的人----也就是佛).
這也不影響我的主張:在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
“yo so, āvuso anurādha, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto, taṃ tathāgato imesu catūsu ṭhānesu pa&&āpayamāno pa&&āpeti
http://agama.buddhason.org/SA/SAsearch1 ... SA0106.htm
以上是SN 22.86 的巴利語經文(臺灣嘉義法雨道場流通的word版本),我不懂巴利語,但是,從tathāgato的外形看來,應該就是Tathagata. 從莊居士的翻譯看,他也是翻成{如來}:
尊者阿奴羅度對那些其他外道遊行者這麼說：
「道友！當安立最高的人、無上的人、已證得無上成就的如來時.
所以,我主張:在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
即使如緬甸宗教部將這裏的如來看成是that sentient being, 這裏的that sentient being也不是指眾生的實在性,而是指代某個眾生(最高的人、無上的人、已證得無上成就的人----也就是佛).
這也不影響我的主張:在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
其實,還有很多南傳方面的經文可以支持我的主張:
在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
再略舉兩例:
Responding, "As you say, lord," to the Blessed One, Ven. Ānanda — taking a bowl — went to the well. As he was approaching the well, it expelled all the grass & chaff from its mouth and stood filled to the brim — streaming, as it were — with pristine water, undisturbed & clear. The thought occurred to him, "How amazing! How astounding! — the great power & great might of the Tathāgata! — in that, while I was approaching the well, it expelled all the grass & chaff from its mouth and stood filled to the brim — streaming, as it were — with pristine water, undisturbed & clear."
Ud 7.9 PTS: Ud 78
Udapāna Sutta: The Well
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
"Whatever beings (non-human) are assembled here, terrestrial or celestial, come let us salute the Buddha, the Tathagata (the perfect One), honored by gods and men. May there be happiness.[9]
Sn 2.1 PTS: Sn 222-238
Ratana Sutta: The Jewel Discourse
translated from the Pali by
Piyadassi Thera
在南傳的經文裏,也有不少這樣的稱呼(除世尊自稱之外的用法):
再略舉兩例:
Responding, "As you say, lord," to the Blessed One, Ven. Ānanda — taking a bowl — went to the well. As he was approaching the well, it expelled all the grass & chaff from its mouth and stood filled to the brim — streaming, as it were — with pristine water, undisturbed & clear. The thought occurred to him, "How amazing! How astounding! — the great power & great might of the Tathāgata! — in that, while I was approaching the well, it expelled all the grass & chaff from its mouth and stood filled to the brim — streaming, as it were — with pristine water, undisturbed & clear."
Ud 7.9 PTS: Ud 78
Udapāna Sutta: The Well
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
"Whatever beings (non-human) are assembled here, terrestrial or celestial, come let us salute the Buddha, the Tathagata (the perfect One), honored by gods and men. May there be happiness.[9]
Sn 2.1 PTS: Sn 222-238
Ratana Sutta: The Jewel Discourse
translated from the Pali by
Piyadassi Thera
現在我試著來談一談一○四經涉及的語境的問題:
焰摩迦比丘的知見內容並未直接地提到佛陀,但是,並不是和佛陀毫無關系...
焰摩迦比丘的邪惡見是說----漏盡阿羅漢身壞命終，更無所有。這裏的漏盡阿羅漢包括了佛陀.也就是說,他的邪惡見和其他的人說----如來死後不存在是一樣的.
針對這種邪惡見,佛和阿羅漢們基本常常碰到,他們對此的解答也基本會差不多,
就好比雜阿含106經等等所記載的----理路差不多:
1)問對方五蘊是我嗎?
2)問對方五蘊是如來嗎?
在這裏,大致來說,第一問是要破"有";第二問是要破"無".之所以我說大致來說,是因為確實很難說清楚----說詳細而又沒有破綻.
大家知道,"我"是沒有的,但是,解脫(者)是有的(比如說如來和其他阿羅漢).
而焰摩迦比丘的邪見主要是對於解脫(者)的誤解----死後無.
在這裏,設想一下我們回到那個場景:舍利弗尊者面對面和焰摩迦比丘談法,不是在做學術討論,而是面對面,手把手教,那末,當他需要一個漏盡阿羅漢來具體談時,最好的例子是他自己,但是他是個歉和的人,他不會這樣做...那末剩下來,最好的例子就是佛陀.對嗎?
所以,從我的角度來看,舍利弗尊者問他佛陀在不在五蘊裡，絕非無的放矢......
不知道我說清楚了沒有?
焰摩迦比丘的知見內容並未直接地提到佛陀,但是,並不是和佛陀毫無關系...
焰摩迦比丘的邪惡見是說----漏盡阿羅漢身壞命終，更無所有。這裏的漏盡阿羅漢包括了佛陀.也就是說,他的邪惡見和其他的人說----如來死後不存在是一樣的.
針對這種邪惡見,佛和阿羅漢們基本常常碰到,他們對此的解答也基本會差不多,
就好比雜阿含106經等等所記載的----理路差不多:
1)問對方五蘊是我嗎?
2)問對方五蘊是如來嗎?
在這裏,大致來說,第一問是要破"有";第二問是要破"無".之所以我說大致來說,是因為確實很難說清楚----說詳細而又沒有破綻.
大家知道,"我"是沒有的,但是,解脫(者)是有的(比如說如來和其他阿羅漢).
而焰摩迦比丘的邪見主要是對於解脫(者)的誤解----死後無.
在這裏,設想一下我們回到那個場景:舍利弗尊者面對面和焰摩迦比丘談法,不是在做學術討論,而是面對面,手把手教,那末,當他需要一個漏盡阿羅漢來具體談時,最好的例子是他自己,但是他是個歉和的人,他不會這樣做...那末剩下來,最好的例子就是佛陀.對嗎?
所以,從我的角度來看,舍利弗尊者問他佛陀在不在五蘊裡，絕非無的放矢......
不知道我說清楚了沒有?
